kate_nepveu: candle burning amid many papers and books (Princess Tutu (telling of tales))Kate ([personal profile] kate_nepveu) wrote,
@ 2010-10-19 10:44 pm UTC
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Current mood:mildly frivolous
Entry tags:fanfic

So tonight [personal profile] cofax7 went and crossed over Narnia and Stargate: SG-1 in a creepily brillant little snippet, which reminded me of my working theory of crossover fandoms, to wit:

Fandoms cross over [*] with others easily and well when they have canonically thin or low barriers to other realities (Dungeon Dimensions, time travel, alternate universes, etc.) or are explicitly metafictional. Thus, Discworld, Princess Tutu, the Stargate series, presumably Doctor Who, and so forth.

Given this, I propose Sandman as the universal crossover fandom. Spans pretty much all of time and space, explicitly metafictional, and if all else fails, you can always have the characters meet one of the Endless for thematic or character-development goodness. What do you think?

[*] Just because I personally hadn't heard the term "fusion" until recently: I'm talking about stories where two sources are put together without fundamental changes to either. This is different from fusions, when elements from one source are taken from that source and put in the context of another. Good crossover fandoms aren't necessarily good fusion fandoms; the good fusions I've read have some worldbuilding characteristic that will be fun to set different characters against. His Dark Materials is probably the easiest example, because hey, daemons, but for purposes of this I will link to "X" by [livejournal.com profile] trinityofone (general audiences, 3500 words), which fuses Stargate: Atlantis with X-Men, because it delights me. See also: "The You and Whose Army Job" by [livejournal.com profile] liviapenn (general audiences, 3500 words), which crosses over SGA and Leverage, and "The Good Guys" by [livejournal.com profile] tielan (general audiences, 5500 words), which fuses them. (As a consequence, I think that fusions are a lot harder, or less rewarding, to read if you don't know both sources, which is not necessarily the case for crossovers.)



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cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Climb - default)


[personal profile] cofax7
2010-10-20 02:53 am UTC (link)
As a consequence, I think that fusions are a lot harder, or less rewarding, to read if you don't know both sources, which is not necessarily the case for crossovers.

Really? because I tend to think it's the other way around: a true fusion requires you to know only one set of characters, and if the writing is good enough, you can pick up the setting easily enough.

Anyway, thank you for the lovely plug. Things happen when I'm pissed off at the office and too bored to file.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-20 03:00 am UTC (link)
Mmmm, point. I guess I was influenced by the two I linked to, which are much -- tighter? closer? -- fusions than some others, with a one-to-one correspondence of characters, and so much of the fun for me is seeing those correspondences. I think "X" would be way less interesting if the reader didn't know SGA, in other words, and "The Good Guys" would be somewhat less interesting to me if I wasn't saying "I will take Teyla angst over Nate angst *any* day."

Would you say that the reader should know the fandom of the added characters, rather than the world, because those are what changes are being rung on?

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chomiji: A cartoon image of chomiji, who is holding a coffee mug and a book and wearing kitty-cat ears (Gojyo  - King of Hearts)


[personal profile] chomiji
2010-10-20 02:57 am UTC (link)

Someone had me do a flashfic with Tenpou Gensui having an encounter with Dream. It was certainly easy to work with, and fun to write.

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kate_nepveu: Kenren and Tenpou in uniform leaning on each other, with falling cherry blossoms (Saiyuki Gaiden (Kenren and Tenpou))


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-20 03:02 am UTC (link)
Oooh. Link?

I thought about putting Saiyuki on this list, but I wasn't sure; I've seen a lot of AUs, because of the reincarnation thing, but not as many crossovers. OTOH, I haven't read much in the fandom for years and years.

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chomiji: Akari, the shaman from SDK ... more to her than you might imagine  (Akari - autumn colors)


[personal profile] chomiji
2010-10-20 03:11 am UTC (link)

Here on my fic LJ or here on AO3.

I did a FAKE/xxxHolic crossover in the same batch, and a Bleach/Howl's Moving Castle one. It was fun!

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(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 04:31 pm UTC (Expand)
princessofgeeks: (RDA and MS by magnavox)


[personal profile] princessofgeeks
2010-10-20 03:02 am UTC (link)
sandman is SO the universal crossover fandom. yes. totally. i wrote one of the lotrips actors in that world once. or maybe Delirium was in our world. who can tell? LOL. I am overdue for a reread of those comics, come to think of it.....

Last edited 2010-10-20 03:03 am UTC

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-20 03:03 am UTC (link)
I spent a little time while washing the dishes unsuccessfully trying to come up with examples that didn't work, and I imagine I'll play the game more in odd moments, but I'm not very creative to start with so my experience isn't necessarily useful!

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ktempest: just a picture of me with my awesome fan (tempest with fan)


[personal profile] ktempest
2010-10-20 03:03 am UTC (link)
I have long wished to cross over Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings via the most terrible Mary Sue creation in existence.

Anyway, I like this idea. I feel that so many wonderful things can cross or pass through Sandman, and it would totally fit. The Doctor in Destiny's garden would completely amuse me. A conversation between Harry and Death would also amuse me. No wait... a conversation between Dumbledore and Death just after he and Harry's last conversation.

Damnit. Now I'm gonna write that.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-20 03:06 am UTC (link)
I am very tempted to make a sub-rule that everything is improved with an appearance by Death.

In other words: yes please!

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(no subject) - [personal profile] skwidly, 2010-10-20 05:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 07:39 pm UTC (Expand)


[identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com
2010-10-20 04:09 pm UTC (link)
So in the rather excessive poking around in that Archive thing I've done recently (which, by the way, is pretty much entirely your fault), I've been bewildered by the sheer volume of fic devoted to the Stargate serieseseses. I mean, absurd amounts of Harry Potter fic I would have expected, but the Stargate thing threw me. I had no idea they were so popular.

Possibly because I've never watched any of the TV shows, just the movie. I'm wondering if I'm actually really missing out on something, or if this is just one of those "extremely devoted cult following" things I won't necessarily get, like Deadheads or something.

Anyway, to your actual subject, I agree with you that (in my limited experience) fusions are generally harder to read than crossovers if you don't know both sources, but it kind of depends on how immersive the "fusion" part is, and from which direction. I mean, if all it is is "Verse X exactly as it always is, except with daemons", well, that's pretty easy to follow even if you've never read His Dark Materials, but probably not very good at all to read if you only know HDM and not Verse X.

The weirdest fusion I've come across was Merlin (the BBC show) and The Wheel of Time, which... kind of really didn't work, in my opinion. But then, I've noticed that there is very little WOT fanfic out there, period - that I've seen, anyway, which admittedly it's not like I've been looking that hard, so take it for what it's worth. I think your theory about what makes for ease of crossovers, though, kind of applies to whether the 'verse tends to attract fanfic at all as well. Jordan's world is so... dense, and kind of complete unto itself, that there just doesn't seem to be much "play" in there for derivative works to branch off from.

Or, I have no idea what I'm talking about. One of the two.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-20 04:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, it may be that SGA writers imported more of their stuff into the Archive; I don't know how that worked out. But SGA was the fandom that ate fandom for several years--it's really *not* a good show (more details on request), but the characters are appealing and it lends itself to fic extremely easily for many of the same reasons it's a good crossover fandom. Also media fandoms tend to have more fic than book fandoms, just because of bigger audiences.

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me about WoT. A bunch of historical fandoms are like that too--Temeraire, Aubrey-Maturin--I've seen good fic in those but it's rare, because the prose style and settings are barriers to entry. WoT would be hellish to do well just from a familiarity-with-canon point of view, and while I'm sure there are people out there working out who-killed-Asmodean in stories rather than endless discussions, there still doesn't feel like there are as many fannish hooks for stories. Even though people did all that kind of thing with Harry Potter. While I can't quite quantify the difference, I still feel the same way you do about the sort of closed-off feeling.

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(no subject) - [identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com, 2010-10-20 04:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 05:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com, 2010-10-20 05:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 07:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com, 2010-10-20 08:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] msilverstar, 2010-10-23 01:33 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-23 01:33 am UTC (Expand)
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skwidly: (Blue Y)


[personal profile] skwidly
2010-10-20 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Like Kate, I have to agree that SGA is not really a good show, but it does have some appealing characters.

SG1, OTOH, had a rocky beginning (not unlike TNG), but then developed into a really, really good show, IMO. SGU has been pretty good to me, so far, but I think it alienated a lot of traditional SG fans with its grimmer, more realistic take on joint military/civilian/scientist operations, where the other two series were very aware that they were sometimes silly space shows and winked at you a lot.

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(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 05:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] skwidly, 2010-10-20 05:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-20 07:44 pm UTC (Expand)
msilverstar: (viggo bed)


[personal profile] msilverstar
2010-10-23 01:37 am UTC (link)
I have watched one episode of SGA which was Star Trek TOS-type plot and dialog, and was too horrified to ever watch again. But I've read a ton of fanfic, much of it fabulous. Some writers are more into canon than others. And even the fandom BNFs often slag off the show writing, because it is that bad and could have been so much better.

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[personal profile] rysmiel
2010-10-23 12:20 am UTC (link)
You have seen The Ultimate Meta-Crossover Of Ultimate Destiny, yes ? (Mostly A Fire Upon the Deep and Permutation City).

My hindbrain has a bad habit of sproinging fusion ideas at me at the worst possible time; as I was rewatching all of due South this year, I have material for a Dresden Files one and a Crow: Stairway to Heaven one in my head which I could wish was not.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-23 01:34 am UTC (link)
Oh, gosh, I think I need to re-read that when I'm not literally falling asleep at my desk; I got the emotional punch and the general idea, but that's a lot of exposition for a Friday night.

Ought I watch _Due South_?

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(no subject) - [personal profile] rysmiel, 2010-10-23 01:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] kate_nepveu, 2010-10-24 01:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [personal profile] rysmiel, 2010-10-24 02:26 am UTC (Expand)
sqbr: pretty purple pi (I like pi!)


[personal profile] sqbr
2010-10-23 01:24 pm UTC (link)
There...there is A Fire Upon the Deep and Permutation City crossover fic? With actual theoretical computer science in it? *does a happy little geek girl dance*

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msilverstar: (they say)


[personal profile] msilverstar
2010-10-23 01:38 am UTC (link)
I was considering doing an RPF/FPF crossover challenge, this has given me some good stuff to think about, thanks!

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-23 01:43 am UTC (link)
Glad to be of help!

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[identity profile] khym-chanur.livejournal.com
2010-10-23 04:38 am UTC (link)
Given this, I propose Sandman as the universal crossover fandom.

Hmmm, while probably the most crossover-able, I wouldn't go so far as to say universal. One big thing is that in Sandman the gods start out as dreams and then subsist off of belief. If another series has gods which operate in a different way, it would be difficult to get the two different canons to mesh well. But if the second series is light on the metaphysics then it should be easy.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-24 01:57 am UTC (link)
Mmm, interesting. I can tell it's been a bit too long since I read _Sandman_ because I don't remember if that's a universal condition for deities in its universe or just the ones we happen to see, if that makes sense.

But even if the theological underpinnings were inconsistent I don't see why a traveler at Worlds' End couldn't tell a story of having gone to a strange place or such.

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melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (daydreaming, default)


[personal profile] melannen
2010-10-24 01:09 am UTC (link)
Having caught this from metafandom:

Sandman is a pretty good crossover fandom, yes, but I propose that even Dream remembers to ask the Transcendent Pig the meaning of life, should they meet; that even the Transcendant Pig occasionally enjoys going to a Centennial Convention of the Interuniversal Society for Eschatological Pantheistic Multiple-Ego Solipsism and being fictional for awhile; and that Dr. Reed Chalmers, seventy years on, just wishes all those damn kids would get off his damn lawn and let him cross universes in peace.

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(no subject) - [personal profile] melannen, 2010-10-24 04:05 am UTC (Expand)
lady_ganesh: A Clue card featuring Miss Scarlett. (miss scarlet)


[personal profile] lady_ganesh
2010-10-24 01:43 am UTC (link)
Interesting post! Sliders is an easy-crossover fandom too, if anyone still remembers it.

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kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (wood cat)


[personal profile] kate_nepveu
2010-10-24 01:59 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I should imagine so, though I never saw it.

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(no subject) - [personal profile] lady_ganesh, 2010-10-24 02:02 am UTC (Expand)
alias_sqbr: Apologises for the terrible prose it's probably accompanied by, reads an e e cummings poem (default icon)


[personal profile] alias_sqbr
2010-10-24 02:33 am UTC (link)
What about the Thursday Next series? I didn't really like the one I read, but they are about someone who can cross into any book. Of course, being a book about books it's not as popular for fic as Stargate etc.

Personally I'm not usually a huge fan of stories which cross more than two canons, it all ends up feeling twee and artificial (see: why I didn't like "The Eyre Affair", or what I've seen of Callahan's Crosstime Saloon) But canons which are already full of crossovers do make any further crossover fic seem entirely natural.

(dw is being weird about me being logged in, but this is sqbr)

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