On asking to touch the breasts of a stranger

[kate_nepveu]

If you are a stranger, especially a man, perhaps especially in a group of other strangers who are men, and you come up to me and say, "You're very beautiful. I'd like to touch your breasts. Would you mind if I did?":

You will put me in fear.

Because you could be someone who will go away quietly if I say no (which I will). You could be the exiled gay prince of Farlandia, cursed to wander this Earth looking for the key to his return that can only be revealed by touching the breast of a willing stranger, and who isn't enjoying this at all. You could, in short, not be a danger to me.

But how am I supposed to know that?

How am I supposed to distinguish you from the person who says he's really just whatever, but is actually going to put emotional pressure on me, or make a scene, or stalk me, or rape me?

I can't. Because that would require a level of discernment and of trust that is not possible, by definition, in my dealings with a stranger.

And therefore, if you ask to touch my breasts, you will frighten me.

If your goal is actually to make a better world, I suggest that you use a method that doesn't involve putting women in fear.

(Also, I find it hard to believe you can create "the kind of world where [people can] say, 'Wow, I'd like to touch your breasts,' and people would understand that it's not a way of reducing you to a set of nipples and ignoring the rest of you, but rather a way of saying that I may not yet know your mind, but your body is beautiful," by going up to women, touching their breasts, and then going away. Among many, many other problems that are noted in the comments to the original. But that's secondary to my main point here.)

Comments

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

Also, I can't figure out why the concept of "just asking" is such a revolutionary one. People ask other people all the time if they can touch their boobs. IN PRIVATE. Where they can graciously decline or enthusiastically accept without wondering what this will mean to so-and-so's utopian touch movement.

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

To be more clear: I do not think asking people publically if you can touch parts that most people consider to be intimate is kosher.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

Somehow I don't think the being private fixes it. Like if theferrett had waited till he was with one woman in an elevator and then busted out his "Hi you're beautiful can I touch your breasts?" line? Not so great.

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

Yes, I see the problem with the word "private".

Maybe to rephrase: I believe such negotiation of personal boundaries should be one on one, without the group dynamic to pressure you.

And common sense dictates that if you try to blow past the early boundaries and go straight for the boobs, yeah, many women will likely feel threatened and upset.

Perhaps this just seems common-sensical to me. When I said "private" I was thinking "private after we've already engaged as people and gotten to know each other and already gauged trust levels". But yeah.

[meacoustic.livejournal.com]

Completely randomly and off-topic, but now I want to write a fic called "Utopian Touch Movement". With lots of groping... in private.

[kate_nepveu]

I . . . don't know if I would do that, but for reasons that are probably not familiar to you since I think you're new here, I appreciated it . . .

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

(I deleted the comment because I was like, hm, you know, I don't know that she actually wants that much detail out there on the series of tubes, but I will sum up here: the deleted comment was about a friend physically defending herself, in a humorous but unnerving way, from strangers rubbing her belly while pregnant.)

and yes, I am new, and should have introduced myself -- I am here via coffeeandink and nestra. :)

[kate_nepveu]

Thanks for the context, and welcome!

[pixelfish.livejournal.com]

My sister has that happen to her all the time, even more so since it was discovered she was carrying twins. I regard that as a horrifying breach of personal privacy and can't believe people do it without even asking. (I myself would only ask because I'm family and I'm curious about the kicking. I don't think I've ever touched the belly of a pregnant friend.)

[jsbowden.livejournal.com]

ObTeeShirt: Kate Niewview, can I touch your belly?!

That tee, BTW? Is indeed awesome Kate.

[kate_nepveu]

Chad gets the credit--he bought it for me.