kate_nepveu | On asking to touch the breasts of a stranger

If you are a stranger, especially a man, perhaps especially in a group of other strangers who are men, and you come up to me and say, "You're very beautiful. I'd like to touch your breasts. Would you mind if I did?":

You will put me in fear.

Because you could be someone who will go away quietly if I say no (which I will). You could be the exiled gay prince of Farlandia, cursed to wander this Earth looking for the key to his return that can only be revealed by touching the breast of a willing stranger, and who isn't enjoying this at all. You could, in short, not be a danger to me.

But how am I supposed to know that?

How am I supposed to distinguish you from the person who says he's really just whatever, but is actually going to put emotional pressure on me, or make a scene, or stalk me, or rape me?

I can't. Because that would require a level of discernment and of trust that is not possible, by definition, in my dealings with a stranger.

And therefore, if you ask to touch my breasts, you will frighten me.

If your goal is actually to make a better world, I suggest that you use a method that doesn't involve putting women in fear.

(Also, I find it hard to believe you can create "the kind of world where [people can] say, 'Wow, I'd like to touch your breasts,' and people would understand that it's not a way of reducing you to a set of nipples and ignoring the rest of you, but rather a way of saying that I may not yet know your mind, but your body is beautiful," by going up to women, touching their breasts, and then going away. Among many, many other problems that are noted in the comments to the original. But that's secondary to my main point here.)

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Thank you for saying this, given the huge number of comments to the effect of, "You weren't there, so you've no right to criticize. All the women who were there were either totally enthusiastic, or completely unaffected and unbothered."

And the message that has, to me is, "You aren't welcome there, with your prudish ways, and strange hangups." So, yeah, funny how women aren't enthusiastic about SF cons, right, since apparently you need to be willing to HAVE YOUR BOOBS GROPED as an entrance requirement.

And this, right there, is why I haven't gone to a non-slash con in over 15 years. I see that it apparently hasn't gotten any better. I'm going to Shore Leave this year and I just hope I don't need body armor.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, save for some drunk yahoo at a "Room party", though I guess that can be a hazard wherever one may encounter drunk yahoos.

Nah, I actually meant Shore Leave in Baltimore. Which has something of a rep, or at least did the last time I went (like, over a decade ago). ShoreCon... sounds vaguely familiar. I don't think I ever went when I was living in NJ though. Drunk yahoos are unfortunately a universal experience. Le sigh.

Thanks for the reassurance though. I'm thinking about getting out to more sci-fi cons since people keep trying to convince me that they're better now. And then I hear about something like this and I think, "Guess not."

ShoreCon doesn't exist any more. It was originally held (duh) down at the Jersey Shore, but by the late 90s had moved to Cherry Hill, NJ (near Philly). It grew to a huge size...then 9/11 happened the week of the 2001 'con. Attendance was so low, it effectively killed the con with debt, though it struggled valiantly for a year or two more. It was replaced with Southern Exposure, but it's really not the same (and is about 10x smaller).

And upon closer inspection, it appears that some of the comments of enthusiatic women were actually by wives of the men who instigated the groping. And yes, we know about all the porn showing girl-on-girl action that are really by men for men. So this is different....how?

On asking to touch the breasts of a stranger

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If you mean ShoreCon in NJ?

Re: If you mean ShoreCon in NJ?

Re: If you mean ShoreCon in NJ?

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