kate_nepveu | On asking to touch the breasts of a stranger

If you are a stranger, especially a man, perhaps especially in a group of other strangers who are men, and you come up to me and say, "You're very beautiful. I'd like to touch your breasts. Would you mind if I did?":

You will put me in fear.

Because you could be someone who will go away quietly if I say no (which I will). You could be the exiled gay prince of Farlandia, cursed to wander this Earth looking for the key to his return that can only be revealed by touching the breast of a willing stranger, and who isn't enjoying this at all. You could, in short, not be a danger to me.

But how am I supposed to know that?

How am I supposed to distinguish you from the person who says he's really just whatever, but is actually going to put emotional pressure on me, or make a scene, or stalk me, or rape me?

I can't. Because that would require a level of discernment and of trust that is not possible, by definition, in my dealings with a stranger.

And therefore, if you ask to touch my breasts, you will frighten me.

If your goal is actually to make a better world, I suggest that you use a method that doesn't involve putting women in fear.

(Also, I find it hard to believe you can create "the kind of world where [people can] say, 'Wow, I'd like to touch your breasts,' and people would understand that it's not a way of reducing you to a set of nipples and ignoring the rest of you, but rather a way of saying that I may not yet know your mind, but your body is beautiful," by going up to women, touching their breasts, and then going away. Among many, many other problems that are noted in the comments to the original. But that's secondary to my main point here.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

No Will, it's THE point. It's why I don't hang out with a lot of geek crowds. It's why I'm more likely to go to party full of school teachers with my wife than a gathering of geeks (your place doesn't count, your social circle isn't geek exclusive, though it is slightly geek weighted). The problem with cons is that you don't just get the geek contingent, who normally are a bit odd, but at least have enough wits about them to function in the world and have a job, but you get the very definition of loserdom in droves. No job, no life, no social skills, still living in mom's basement, thinking they're the epitome of cool, and still obsessed with whatever bit of useless trivia makes them more 'into' it than the other loser down the hall. In between arguing over pointless trivialities, they hit on anything of the opposite sex with all the subtlety and grace of a howitzer (and yeah, they come in female too, and they're just as, if not more, creepy than their male counterpart).

They aren't the whole crowd by a long shot, but there are enough of them about in concentration that I'd much rather be somewhere else.

(your place doesn't count, your social circle isn't geek exclusive, though it is slightly geek weighted)

More than slightly, to be honest. But...geek yes, loser no, I suppose, going by your definitions. And varied in type of geek.

But you and Kate have a point, one I didn't think about at the time (and that I'm not sure I'd have realized at all on my own). I guess I still have some blind spots. Well, don't we all.

That we do.

I don't know if it's possible to say this without sounding condescending, but I like talking about knotty subjects like this with you, because even if we don't agree, you *listen*. So, cheers.

I don't know if it's possible to say this without sounding condescending...

Don't worry. I know what you mean and appreciate the compliment in the sense it is intended. (Besides, as I believe I have said before, I am Just An Egg.)

Thanks.

Just An Egg

...I should find a better way to say that, given the Heinlein comments on page 2. I hadn't realized that's where I'd gotten that from.

I didn't recognize the ref anyway, never having read Heinlein!

But probably not a bad idea. =>

On asking to touch the breasts of a stranger

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