kate_nepveu | Readercon report

Entry tags:

cons: readercon: 2009

Readercon report

I treated Readercon as a vacation, meaning I came out Thursday, went to only the panels I really wanted to, and generally was not in the mood to deal with annoying things because hey, vacation.

As other people have said, the programming seemed to assume that everyone was treating it like a vacation, scheduling a ton of stuff on Friday (including no dinner break) and much more lightly on the actual weekend days. Since this was not a long weekend, this seemed peculiarly suboptimal. The programming content also seemed to have some peculiarities (well-qualified people who asked to be on relevant panels not put on panels in favor of people who seemed much less well qualified; highly gendered assignments on two of the panels I attended, and possibly more I didn't).

As for the venue, the panel rooms were indeed freezing cold, and I seem to have been the only person who had no trouble with the hotel wireless.

I went to six program items: three panels, two talks, and one reading. Notes on the first two sets forthcoming or already posted. The reading was David Anthony Durham's; he read the Prologue from The Other Lands, the sequel to Acacia (which I am almost done reviewing, honest!), which was from the point-of-view of one of the children taken in the Quota. Also an unofficial item, readings from recent issues of Sybil's Garage, which prompted me to buy issue no. 6; though, looking at the tables of contents, I should also have bought issue no. 5 since I was very impressed with Veronica Schanoes's ferocious reading of her story "Lost in the Supermarket" (which quite dissuaded me from the idea of mentioning that my favorite version of that is the Afghan Whigs' cover, or that I think someone should vid Harry Potter to it (probably the original version, there)).

I had lovely conversations with lots of people I'd met before (including one blast from my early Internet past) and some I hadn't; I'm not going to do the namecheck thing because I find that awkward, but if we talked and I might not know how to find you now, feel free to leave your LJ name or blog address in comments. I also was patronized by a white man old enough to be my father and had a younger white man hit two race-discussion bingo squares in two sentences; but since that last came after I'd brought up racism in fandom at a talk and the other people who spoke to me about it were positive, well, it could be worse. (More on that later. And sexism too, whee!)

Alas, the flyer for next year's Readercon is deeply unpromising: no guests of honor, single-track programming, and a tagline: "This IS your father's Readercon." Apparently Readercon has no qualms about the graying of fandom or excluding women for the sake of a punchline! And I am very dubious about the idea of single-track programming a con of several hundred people, full of people who desparately want to be on programming: to paraphrase someone else, it seems likely that the loudest and most institutional people will end up on panels. I'd be tempted to just take advantage of the con rate for the hotel and camp out in the lobby to see people, but you know, the hotel is not actually that nice or convenient. Stop me before I volunteer to run a counter-con (Arisia for the vanilla!), because I so do not have time.

ETA: ericmvan has now called the tagline a mistake; further information may be found scattered through those comments, though a clear statement of intentions for next year has been strongly urged.

Link roundups will be over at readercon as usual; also I'm taking suggestions on what I should do about all the Twitter posts about the con.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Stop me before I volunteer to run a counter-con (Arisia for the vanilla!)

Does that imply that Arisia itself is not for the vanilla? I mean, I know it's kink-friendly, but when I was there this year I don't recall anything that would squick out a vanilla person that wasn't part of a clearly marked kink-related event...

The programming thing seems to be happening a lot lately--apparently some internecine warfare in Programming Ops at Baycon led to some issues of similar form. (I say "apparently" because, as a non-local, I didn't know firsthand.)

I am curious to hear about the racism/sexism issues...your influence, I'm sure.

And yes, that sounds like a disappointing Readercon 2010.

Well, there was the year that the "Vanilla Monogamy Meet and Greet" was scheduled into the con suite, and wound up being a few people hanging out just outside the actual con suite....

Okay, I've never actually been to Arisia so that flip comment might have been too flip. But I have received the impression, possibly exaggerated, that the community norms for dress include a fair amount of skin and kink-related or -suggestive outfits, and I am an old fogey who would feel a bit awkward in that situation--my issue, not a judgment, etc.

FWIW, Arisia tends to run to extremes. There are those who go for a lot of kink-heavy outfits, but there are those who dress in t-shirts or button-downs and are fine (and it's an incredibly kid-oriented con even as it's also got a huge adult-oriented aspect).

yes to the extremes in outfits. I think the vast majority are wearing t-shirts/jeans/comfy outfits. The "wacky" con only outfits and hall costumes tend to be a bit....zesty.

For whatever it's worth, I've never been bothered by the outfits/costuming at Arisia, and I'm about as vanilla as they come. On the other hand, my first "fandom" was the Society for Creative Anachronism, and my first actual sf con was a Philcon back in the late seventies, so my mental illustrated-dictionary entry for "sf convention" is fairly heavy on hall costumes and related weirdness. Readercon, much as I enjoy its programming most of the time, always strikes me as being fairly far out on the sercon/stuffy end of the spectrum.

Readercon was almost indistinguishable from people at the mall.

The mall would have had a more diverse -- if on the whole less sf/fantasy literate -- population.

I was referring only to clothing, but yes, quite accurate on the larger point.

Hm. Based on your responses and others', I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong, or my scales are miscalibrated, or it's changed, or I just didn't notice. (I was rather drunk Saturday night, and that probably would have been the worst of it, I suppose...*grin*)

Shows what I know, anyway.

Disclaimer: I am the Events DivHead for Arisia this year.

Arisia bills itself as, "The largest and most diverse regional SF/F convention in New England" and so you can be sure there will be people of all stripes there, from Kink to Vanilla With Kids. We try pretty hard to provide space and content for everyone; unfortunately, the hotel situation is less than optimal, to be sure.

If you want to let me know what, if anything, you think would make you uncomfortable at Arisia, I'll make sure the information gets back to the conChair (with or without attribution as you request); we're always looking for ways to make the con more friendly!

Thank you for commenting. I appreciate it.

Arisia is not practical for me in 2010; though I am becoming disenchanted with Boskone, I will be going because Tom Shippey is a guest, and they're too close together for me to travel out for both.

I may well be considering it for 2011 and later, however, and will be looking for more information about it in that case.

Have you posted about your disenchantment? I'm certainly interested in your thoughts.

No.

I'm becoming less enthused about the programming and the membership.

I may well be considering it for 2011 and later, however, and will be looking for more information about it in that case.

While I cannot stay what, if anything, I'll be doing for Arisia in 2011, I'll still be happy to give you any information you may want and convey any suggestions back to the conChair as you may have. :-)

I'm not comfortable at Arisia. I think I would be better about it if it were not coincidentally Claustrophobiacon (awkward hotel, crowded, narrow halls), but the one time I attended in its previous location I was still not comfortable with many of the costumes. It was riiiight on the border of bystander consent, and I don't like being that close to the border.

(Some dealers' materials are similarly borderliney, although that was my own fault -- individual dealers are in individual rooms, so I could just have not walked into that one.)

I found my first Arisia ... unsettling. It was one of the high-kink quotient ones (nadir: the young woman in pvc offering to flog random passersby in the elevator lobby), but none of the subsequent ones have made me uncomfortable.

Other than being crowded and having serious elevator problems (more at the Hyatt Ziggerat than at the Park Plaza) and poor space planning (which has a lot to do with the physical layout of the HZ).

I have this theory that the problem is that the people aren't actually part of the kink community, so much as wearing kinky costumes. Some good socialization in "what is appropriate conduct in non kink spaces" would improve matters. And hopefully make them feel less of a need to be SHOCKING and EDGY all public.

Ah, that makes a great deal of sense to me.

Since I'm involved in Arisia this year, I'm offering to funnel any suggestions (either with or without attribution) to the convention committee. This can include things like panels on how to dress in public, as it were, as well as bits in the newsletter saying that, while one's kink might be okay, others might not appreciate seeing one dressed for it.

That would be kind of you, thanks. Aside from the basic "Oh noes! Narrow escalator and people with capes! Someone will be strangled!!" issue -- which I presume the hotel just has lots and lots of insurance for -- the one thing that completely scared me away from Arisia was people wearing leashes (held by a different person) in public.

That was a total dealbreaker for me: they were involving me in something I couldn't bear, and I felt I had no right to ask them to stop.

Someone did get their cape caught in the escalator the first year in the Hyatt; after that, there were signs and things in the newsletter quoting "Emma Mode." :-)

I'll be happy to pass these comments along; do you want attribution or would you prefer them to be anonymous*?

*Granted, they are posted here with your name on them so they aren't really anonymous but I don't have to say where they came from if you'd prefer I didn't

I don't mind attribution.

My father's Readercon would probably involve panels discussing FM 8-10-6.

Don't run a counter-con, but consider going to Potlatch. (I've been to one Potlatch, liked it, and it's of a size where one track does work.)

I'm flying to Wiscon next year and I think that's probably it for the cons not in driving distance.

I'm assuming you've seen it already (or will, when you compile Readercon links), but

yuki_onna has proposed Island Con for next year.

Thanks! I hadn't before you linked, though it was places I was going to look.

And sexism too, whee!

Oh, lord. I had one of those encounters. I was cross-eyed with fury.

That does sound deeply unpromising. It sucks when something you previously enjoyed drifts toward something else.

I saw in comments elsewhere that the concom is burnt out, so there was a chance that Readercon would simply go away for a year or two, until someone came up with the idea of a more relaxed con. This sounds sort of reasonable, but the messaging around it hasn't been good, and it is not clear if actually canceling for a year would work out for the best.

the messaging around it hasn't been good

That's...a little understated. The flyer really gave me a sense of OH BOSKONE LETTER NO, to mix the metaphor a little.

I do think it's possible that there will be a good Readercon next year, but I'm not terribly optimistic at the moment. I don't think that the described single-track "your father's" Readercon will be very good, and I don't feel like there's been any obvious effort to recruit new blood for the concom (certainly nothing I've ever seen or heard; I'll admit to a certain lack of perceptiveness and not being tied into the SMOFvine, but still).

I'm aware of at least a couple of people who wanted to get involved and were not made to feel welcomed.

I wish this felt more surprising to hear.

Single-track programming a con the size of Readercon? That's ... not very sensible.

And "This IS your father's Readercon."--so very exclusionary, I'm horrified.

I feel bad for all the people for whom this is their hometown con, if that's what's going on there. I look forward to your further reports.

That flyer-- whoof. A counter-con is something to consider, as clearly the concom does not want me to go to Readercon 2010. I have been wincing about that all day.

Seriously.

Come to Farthing Party instead. It'll be later in the year, but involve the same amount of time off.

I hope we can finally make it!

Nice to meet you (even if I was slow on the uptake about who you were after my talk). Re your reservations about next year's: yes, I feel pretty much the same way & spoke with a couple of committee members on the last day. Without making any promises, it was clear that they understood the problems, and I'm hoping that they can come up with a saner solution soon.

Well, I _did_ have my badge turned around and didn't realize it . . .

(Note to all who see me at cons: I promise not to be offended if you say "sorry, but your badge is turned around . . . ?")

It was great to talk to you. (It was, in fact, really good to talk to everyone except the two people mentioned; but it was particularly good to talk to you.)

which was from the point-of-view of one of the children taken in the Quota

Yes!

I thought of you!

I had some gender issues while listening (POV character is a boy who is all angry and active, while his sister & twin is not), but Durham promised that she will be much more prominent in the rest of the book.

I have this feeling that Durham's gender politics are not going to be as ambitious as his race and (extrapolating from the prologue) class politics. It would be nice to be wrong, though.

In an interview somewhere (she says, vaguely) Durham said that women would be getting more to do. As you know from our prior discussions, I am nervous about how things may go in the next book(s) but hopeful.

(Hope_ful_. I can type, really I can.)

Edited 2009-07-14 16:13 (UTC)

This interview (http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=380)?

Tempest: As I said, the book is very much in the epic fantasy vein, which usually splits between either male-dominated worlds or warrior-women in… male dominated worlds. Perhaps I’m oversimplifying. But you seem to be taking a step beyond. How much of that was a conscious choice and how much just the way it grew as you wrote?

David: It was both. Certainly, the core of the novel is the four Akaran children. In that regard it’s 50/50, male to female. Around them, though, are primarily male players. I’d like to think that by the end you’ll see just how important the female characters are to me and to the story to come. I’d even suggest that the fact that the novel begins in regular male-dominated form is crucial to the ways that I eventually work to break from that.

I think Tempest is being a bit generous in her question, there, and I'm not quite sure how to take the answer; he does mention "the story to come", but the last sentence implies that he thinks he has already begun to break from a male-dominated template, and I don't think he has. (Could just be careless phrasing, of course.)

Yes, that one. Thanks.

I read the last sentence as talking about the trilogy as a whole not the first book. But what matters is the text, and so we'll just have to wait and see.

(If only SteelyKid would _sleep_, then I could sleep, then I could get things requiring brainpower *done*, including that rassa-frickin'-frackin' review, then I could say "oh and pretty please may I have an ARC of _The Other Lands_?" Argh.)

Heh. I can't decide whether to try to chase down an ARC or not. On the one hand, I really do want to read it. On the other hand, it's not like I'm short of other things I should be reading. If it just sits there until October and the actual book is available I will feel incredibly guilty.

Anyway, hope sleep happens soon, because I want to read your review. :)

Oh geez now I feel like all my complaining about how long it's taking have raised unrealistic expectations!

No, no, never mind me. More work, more sleep, it'll all sort itself out.

I keep thinking I really should make it to Readercon one of these years, given that I live 15 minutes away, but I always end up with something else scheduled for the weekend before I notice it. And maybe now I should stop thinking that.

Well, next year may not be the time, certainly, but we'll see how things shake out. There are noises in the direction of it not being as bad as it first seemed; whether anything comes of them . . . ?

Having seen the way the con organizer was talking over at

yuki_onna's place, I think Readercon is one of those things my friends are going to keep telling me to come to and I'm going to keep politely declining. Because I'm not liking the way that man speaks to other people.

That is entirely understandable.

It's not even any statement I can put my finger on, although I thought what he said to

tn_tiger was breathtakingly rude (and considering she is one of the people square in the RC demographic, a bad business decision too). I think it's just his tone.

It is that he has blamed every poster he's responded to for misunderstanding or misrepresenting the 2010 Readercon situation, when the large number of people responding in the same way indicates that the problem is with the poor way the flyer was expressed and with the audience's lack of enthusiasm for the current state of planning, rather than with their lack of understanding. And even if it were lack of understanding, Readercon is the entity responsible for putting out clear information -- so many people troubled by the current setup indicates the problem with is with the transmitter, not the receiver.

Why, yes, that is it. It exactly.

His unpardonable rudeness to Cat in her next successive post after the one where he was rude to

tn_tiger caused me to tell him directly Readercon was no longer on my list of possibles despite all the nice things people have said about it. Because "I hope you feel like crap now" is not professional communication.

I am still stuck in eye roll on the GRE scores being trotted out. Oh, dude. Oh, DUDE. You did NOT.

Yeah, that was also some dickery, but my eyes were glazing.

That rather struck me, too. It's been many a long year since I've seen someone do that.

Uh what?

http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/502718.html?thread=12244158#t12244158

Eric Van is demonstrating most of the problems with the con in many of the comments he's making on the post.

Wow, I skimmed right past that one in marveling at some of his other comments.

Wow.

For the record? Those comments are very much not making me want to get involved with Readercon.

Yes, likewise.

Whoa! If I wave my GRE scores around, too, can I qualify to speak?

Damn. You're way low on accomplishments if you're over 30 (being charitable) and you still cherish your scores on standardized tests.

I'm wondering if LSAT scores get me more or less cred. Probably less--it's on a weird scale.

Definitely less. LSAT = a professional degree. GRE = Pure Academia.

(I may add, parenthetically, that if you're waving around your GRE scores, it does rather suggest that you wanted to be an academic but didn't. Otherwise you'd be waving around the degree.)

Oh but a degree isn't _quantifiable_.

Based on my somewhat vague recollections of the tests (or at least what the tests were like back in 1990-1), I would say that the LSAT is a harder test than the GRE Analytic section. So I would give it more credit, if I gave a toss about standardized test scores.

I'm impressed at your memory--I have thoroughly purged mine of all recollection of what it was like to take the LSAT, and that was only ten years ago . . .

I have a good memory for useless things.

He is *terrible* at communicating via the internet.

He is somewhat better in person.

Also check him in RaceFail09
http://oyceter.livejournal.com/819945.html?thread=8965097#t8965097

EPIC

Oh geez, I hurt my eyes rolling just remembering it.

o_O

He's quite the little martyr, isn't he? And oh dear, that wife-murderer analogy is one of the more unfortunate I've seen this week.

I've already told his ass in the other CMV post that his behavior reached a level of rudeness and unprofessionalism that meant I wouldn't be attending his con, so long as he ran it or was its titular head. Because, no. I don't make a habit of going out of my way and spending my money to enrich the projects of people who are rude and condescending and outright hateful to my friends, who are also their colleagues. In other words "NO ONE PUTS CAT VALENTE IN THE CORNER."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Readercon report

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject