kate_nepveu: line drawing of startled cat with vacuum nozzle held to back (fandom)
Kate ([personal profile] kate_nepveu) wrote2005-07-18 08:08 pm
Entry tags:

Fantasy Conversion Kit

My entry in the genre conversion kits discussion is very belated, but here it is all the same (I came up with a list of titles back when the discussions were going around, and then didn't have time to add reasons to the list). Since I'm not up-to-date on science fiction these days, so I'm only doing a fantasy conversion kit. Here are ten books chosen to be introductions to different types of fantasy; they're meant to be picked among, based on the tastes of the person you're trying to convert. (I like all of these, else I wouldn't recommend them, but I don't expect everyone to.)

  1. The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien. A great deal of the genre is the Big Fat Fantasy: long, sweeping, multi-character, otherworld fantasies about the fate of the entire world, frequently involving wars and political intrigue. If someone's wanting epic, I still can't come up with anything better than Tolkien in this category, for all that it's not perfect.
  2. Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay. Historically-based or inspired fantasy; it's not an alternate history, but it's similar in enough ways that it could be a gateway into alternate history if one liked it. It's also on the literary end of genre fantasy.

    Tigana is set on an Italy-inspired peninsula and concerns, in part, a curse that has stripped the name of a province from outside memory. It has political and personal intrigue, heightened emotions, and a gripping plot; IMO it also has a somewhat unfortunate attitude toward sex, but that's a relatively small portion of the book. I gave it to an English professor who loved it.

  3. Finder or War for the Oaks by Emma Bull. These are both urban fantasy, which is set in cities of our world or a close relative thereto, present-day or near-future, with magic or Faerie, and often featuring younger (teens and twenties) characters. As urban fantasy often is, these two books are more intimate than your Big Fat Fantasy, both in scale and plot components.

    I think Finder is a slightly better novel than War for the Oaks. However, War for the Oaks was one of the original urban fantasy novels and stands entirely alone. (I don't think that Finder's setting in the Bordertown shared universe renders it not a stand-alone, but I note it for those sensitive to such matters.)

  4. Nine Princes in Amber by Roger Zelazny or Jhereg by Steven Brust: Short, snappy, first-person smartass narration, with high quantities of Cool Stuff and intriguing settings in worlds other than our own (mostly). Chad's hooked several of his students with Jhereg, and a set of the Vlad books up through Dragon now lives in his office.
  5. Last Call by Tim Powers: A secret history of Las Vegas, poker, and the Fisher King. Besides being mythic up to your ears, it's got grit and tension, which might appeal to someone who likes mysteries or thrillers.
  6. Spindle's End by Robin McKinley: For those looking for mythic through a fairy-tale format; also for those who like animals. Rich characters and rich prose in service of a fascinating retelling of "Sleeping Beauty." I have some extended quotes in a review.
  7. Resurrection Man or Mockingbird (review) by Sean Stewart: Tight, intimate family tales with mysterious, non-mechanical magic. Resurrection Man is dark (it opens with the main character looking down at his own corpse), Mockingbird is funny (and, I think, slightly more accessible to mainstream readers), and they're both excellent.
  8. Sorcery and Cecilia by Patricia C. Wrede and Caroline Stevermer (booklog) or The Element of Fire by Martha Wells (booklog entries one, two): Examples of Fantasy of Manners, with all the crackling wit and social negotiation that implies. Sorcery and Cecilia is an epistolary Regency-with-magic, and somewhat lighter than the more seventeenth-century The Element of Fire (which, alas, is also a much harder book to find). Sorcery and Cecilia in particular would be good for romance readers.
  9. Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett: In which "Five billion people almost DIE, and it is FUNNY" (as Book-A-Minute has put it). Because it's also humane, and we could all use that sometimes.
  10. Tooth and Claw by Jo Walton (booklog): Okay, I don't exactly know what else this would lead a new reader into besides Walton's other novels, but as a Trollope novel where all the characters are literal dragons and eat each other, well, I bet you could intrigue a lot of people who've read Trollope (willingly or otherwise) into reading it.

Not objective, not authoritative, open for discussion. Comments?

[identity profile] larabeaton.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
When I saw the title "Fantasy conversion kit", I thought you meant instructions on how to change any book into a fantasy book.

Step 1 - change the main character's name to something you just made up. the more odd the name the better (i.e. Frodo, Rincewind, or Phedre). Repeat for all characters.

(no subject)

[identity profile] larabeaton.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 00:42 (UTC) - Expand
ext_6428: (Default)

[identity profile] coffeeandink.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
But both Frodo and Phedre are real names.

Phedre's a bit more common, I admit.

(Anonymous) 2005-07-19 12:47 am (UTC)(link)
I was surprised not to see _Bridge of Birds_ on your list. If I had to remove one book from your list to make room for it I'd lose _Sorcery and Cecilia_, not because I don't like it (though I don't like it as much as I do the others on your list) but because I think a lot of the fantasy-of-manners (as I understand the term) niche can also be filled by _Tooth and Claw_. Aside from _Bridge of Birds_ being one of my favorite novels ever, it gets the axis of fantasy based on non-European source myths into the mix.

[identity profile] izhilzha.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 12:56 am (UTC)(link)
I'm intrigued that your list mostly includes fantasy that would be shelved in the (grown-up)fiction section of most libraries. Were I trying to convert someone (no matter what age) to fantasy, there are some "children" or "YA" books that would be right up next to Tolkien.

Examples: A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin; The Black Cauldron by Lloyd Alexander; A String in the Harp by Nancy Bond.

Unless your list is specifically directed to converting someone to sword-and-sorcery "grownup" fantasy....

[identity profile] larabeaton.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
I know that my preference for the fantasy genre began with The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, so if I were to add YA books to the list, that one would be at the top.

(no subject)

[identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 17:25 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] montoya.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
I'd stay away from kidbooks, just because there's already a widespread perception (thanks to Harry Potter) that fantasy is an appropriate thing for kidbooks, not for real adult books.

My changes to the list:

1. Replace something -- probably the Stewart, as I've never been a fan -- with Helprin's Winter's Tale. That'll really nail the literary end of things solidly, plus it's a great book. (Plus, it's not shelved in fantasy, which might make it easier to push.)

2. For urban fantasy, I'd replace Bull's serviceable-but-not-great novels with Gaiman's Sandman. This has the extra benefit of introducing someone to graphic novels (which, admittedly, could fail in that they'd not like one and then stay away from the other, but you've already explained about tailoring to the audience, so).

3. I really want to add something unconventional, like Vance's Dying Earth or Lem's Cyberiad, but those really skirt around the edges of fantasy, so probably not on such a short list.

4. I do agree with what Anonymous (Trent?) said about Bridge of Birds replacing Sorcery 'n' Cecilia. (Or at the very least, replace it with Swordspoint.)

5. I'd take Barnes' One For the Morning Glory or Goldman's Princess Bride as the "fairy tale" option. More straight up, I'd look at Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter, or MacDonald's The Princess and the Goblin.

(no subject)

[identity profile] montoya.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 01:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] montoya.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 02:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2005-07-19 05:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] izhilzha.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 05:04 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] izhilzha.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 05:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] tomscud.livejournal.com - 2005-07-23 17:22 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] corruptedjasper.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
The first book of the 5 in the Lloyd Alexander series is The Book Of Three, so you might want to recommend that rather than The Black Cauldron, which is number 2 (although it's entirely possible there are omnibus editions named the Black Cauldron, since that's what Disney named the dismal animated adaptation)

(no subject)

[identity profile] izhilzha.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 05:03 (UTC) - Expand
ext_90666: (Default)

[identity profile] kgbooklog.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:19 am (UTC)(link)
I'm late to this discussion, so I'm a bit unsure of the goals. Are we looking for representatives of the major sub-genres, or most accessible books?

Here's my list (assuming we're trying to steal fans from other genres):

1. Non-readers - Harry Potter
Not a great work, but provably accessible.

2. Mystery: Police Procedural - Pratchett Guards! Guards!

3. Mystery: Hard-boiled PI - Butcher Grave Peril
Third book in the series, but better than the first two.

4. Mystery: Whodunit - Garrett Lord Darcy

5. Books With Cats - Duane Book of Night With Moon
Maybe not a genre, but definitely a large demographic. First Joe Grey book would work too (looking up title...) Cat on the Edge

6. Romance: Silly - Davidson Undead and Unwed

7. Romance: Serious - Harris Dead Until Dark

8. King Arthur - Walton The King's Peace

9. Historical - Stevermer College of Magics
Though Sorcery and Cecilia and Element of Fire work too. And Bridge of Birds for non-European history.

10. Science Fiction -
This shouldn't be hard, but everything I think of is stuff other people already call ScF. Is Pratchett's Strata sufficiently fantastic to count?

[identity profile] cliosfolly.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
Thinking about Sean Stewart, would you consider Nobody's Son to meet your definition of fantasy of manners? Either Shielder's Mark or Gail seem to fit several of the aspects of your definition, and while I wouldn't necessarily qualify it primarily as fantasy of manners, it seems to mesh well enough, to me, to fit in a cousinly sort of way.

[identity profile] marykaykare.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 05:26 am (UTC)(link)
I think you should have some McKillip in there, but I'm a fan.

MKK

[identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 06:53 am (UTC)(link)
Purely anecdotally, T&C has really awesome results on the impressing non-genre readers front. I think there's a whole mainstream market for it... who regrettably wouldn't be seen dead with it.

[identity profile] sienamystic.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 02:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Would Anubis Gates work better than Last Call? It's all one to me, because I adore Powers and these two books in particular, but AG seems to be more universally liked. On the other hand, LC may be more accessable on account of people knowing more about Capone than Colridge.

I'd be likely to replace Spindle's End (my least favorite McKinley) with one of her others. Not Deerskin, because it's so dark, but maybe one of the Beauty and the Beasts, or either of the Damar books.

And I'm so glad you used Element of Fire - it's my favorite Wells, but gets passed over in favor of Death of a Necromancer all the time. (And speaking of which, we'll have to race to the Borderlands, because if I beat you there, I'm taking the name Kade Carrion for myself *g*)

(no subject)

[identity profile] richboye.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 15:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] richboye.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 15:49 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] desdenova.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 18:12 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2005-07-19 03:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting list...I've read all but three of these (_Mockingbird_, _Sorcery & Cecilia_, and _Tooth & Claw_), and certainly liked or even loved all of them. I'm not sure I see the granularity of your sub-genres, which says more about me really, since I'm not used to thinking of fantasy subgenres in quite the same way that you've parsed them here (all that's really saying is that I don't think about subgenres that much at all, to tell the truth). Or maybe another way of saying the same thing is that I lump several of your choices into roughly the same grouping or sub-genre, and if I were making the list, I'd be granular in a different direction, for instance, by giving Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" a separate category rather than subsuming it under either Tolkien "big epic" or Kay "historical basis". Not a criticism, just an observation....

Along the lines of what Mike suggested in the "big convoluted confusing, but nevertheless beautiful and lit'rary" subgenre, along with _Winter's Tale_ (which I haven't read), I'd throw in _Little, Big_. And if you're looking for non-Western flavor entries, I'd absolutely put _Fudoki_ on the list, although it's a very different creature than _Bridge of Birds_ (and granted, I don't recall seeing that you'd read it yet).

--Trent

(no subject)

[identity profile] kgbooklog.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 19:53 (UTC) - Expand
ext_6428: (Default)

[identity profile] coffeeandink.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 04:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I am just awed you took this on at all. It's such a huge task I wouldn't know where to start. The readerly divisions you tried on seem very sensible.

[identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 05:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I keep meaning to read Sean Stewart; the only thing I know of him (assuming it's the same guy, of course, but I think it is) is that he was the head writer for the online murder mystery "game" that was part of the marketing campaign for A.I., which turned out to be about a thousand times cooler (and better-written) than the movie itself was.

For your category of "likes animals", naturally, I must again pimp Watership Down, which you STILL haven't read, have you? I shake an admonitory finger at you!

(no subject)

[identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 17:43 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] leighdb.livejournal.com - 2005-07-19 17:52 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2005-07-20 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I would substitute either A Song for Arbonne or The Sarantine Mosaic for Tigana, if it were my list. Tigana is a good book, but something about the psychology of the characters always seems a bit off to me, and I suspect might bother non-F&SF readers more. The Sarantine Mosaic might be a better choice as it has more fantastic elements than Arbonne (not to mention The Lions of Al-Rassan, which is why I didn't).

I support Mary Kay's recommendation of McKillip. If you haven't read her more recent books (since about 1997, I want to say), you might want to try some of them, as they feel rather different to me than her earlier works such as The Riddle-Master of Hed (although I like those, too). I think the best of her more recent books is Alphabet of Thorn.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2005-07-21 02:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2005-07-21 14:25 (UTC) - Expand

How about so-called "alternative history"?

(Anonymous) 2005-07-24 03:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi, I'm strolling around Internet and approve of many of the choices you put up on your initiation list. I'll try this OpenID thing. Nope, not supported.

May I plug Octavia Butler's "Parable of the Sower" and/or "Parable of the Talents"? I haven't found her other work up to speed relative to these; IMHO they ought to be reprinted in one big volume.

I also enjoy Tim Powers' novels and agree with Chad Orzel's recommendation of "Declare" rather than "Last Call". I prefer the latter (and "Earthquake Weather" was even better) but I think the former may be more accessible and more genre-crossing.

Then again, your list is just fine, given that you're trying to bring in new readers. But I wouldn't knock Ursula Le Guin for adults, nor neglect Ray Bradbury.

Alethea (http://humans.scienceboard.net)

(Anonymous) 2005-07-24 04:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yes, and *do* read Watership Down. Utterly classic. And why hasn't the Annotated Alice (Lewis Carroll, Martin Gardner's notes) been mentioned? Too scholarly? *Too* classic?