Readercon: Ask a Necromancer

[kate_nepveu]

Another set of notes!

Ask a Necromancer

Licensed mortician Amanda Downum hosts this Q&A session about everything death—from the embalming process to modern funeral culture, to the details of decomposition writers are scared to Google.

This was so great.

Amanda writes column for The Deadlands magazine; started doing these talks because job is really cool, also because when I was a baby writer, had a lot of questions about dead bodies

notes about dead bodies

q: top three things you see people getting wrong

a: lot, it depends and it varies, but see a lot of textural description of corpses: isn't cold unless refrigerated, just room temp; dead unfridgerated flesh isn't actually waxy. TV has really hard time getting colors right, probably makeup artists aren't touring morgues on regular basis

q: what was education & training like to get license?

a: mortuary = associate's degree, had always assumed must be medical degree or family apprenticeship program; much easier and accessible, but many schools w/mortuary science don't advertise as such

q: if working w/body that passed when about to have/is on menstrual cycle, anything happens there?

a: not something that notice very often, hard to tell; dead bodies purge fluids, usually not convenient way to tell if menstrual cycle rather than just purging because of what's going on in internal flora

q: where do you stand on embalming, questions about whether necessary?

a: professionally am an embalmer (most states, dual license, embalmer or funeral director); love job, but not necessary. most states not legally required (be very suspicious if funeral home tells you), though if not, needs to be placed in refrigeration, which very important less for health than smell. some will require if want open casket. convenient if services might be delayed or deceased being transported: makes things easier if know not liquefying on route (will still decay eventually, just slows it down)

q: could describe embalming process to some degree, and anything about history of process, how changed over time

a: process: general gist, removing blood and other natural bodily fluids, and injecting formaldehyde solution. embalmers really like to have intact circulatory system, when system is interrupted they are very sad. American embalming tradition likes to have lots of Anubis decorations up, but largely dates back to Civil War when a lot of people dying far away from home, plus there were trains. Lincoln's son famously embalmed, happy with result. doesn't remember when switch to formaldehyde started. are better and less carcinogenic products out there, but formaldehyde is cheapest

q: safety precautions

a: PPE in prep room, ventilation system up to OSHA standards, periodic air quality tests. works for Big Funeral, largest corporate funeral home chain in world, mixed of course but do take safety seriously

q: how do you address interrupted circulatory system (me)

a: prayer. issue: often don't know how someone died unless autopsy performed. raise artery, start injecting, hope: just watch as fluid doesn't go anywhere or blood doesn't come out of veins. usually start with carotid artery as largest & most easily accessible, if that doesn't work, have to go around to more and more; if heart has been damaged, then go to every single limb. just trial and error until works

q: how accurate is Fun Home musical/graphic novel

a: cannot speak to that, don't remember well enough; usually gets question about Six Feet Under, which also did not watch

q: how long is embalmed body dangerous to wildlife if get at it

a: don't know, great question; most modern cemeteries require vaults and concrete grave liners (digging up corpses not as easy as portrayed on screen). does know rats will absolutely eat, take keeping rodents out very seriously, don't know what effect eating has on them. mosquitoes don't care, really think they would, or maybe they get drunk on formaldehyde

q: how autopsy aids or impairs your process

a: requires more work because Y incision, if complete also take out brain, all internal organs, then put into biohazard bag and tuck back into cavity. so does make easier to treat organs, gives access to all major arteries if not hacked to ribbons, but difficult because have to stitch all that back up so a lot of sewing involved, especially scalp, which is painstaking process you want to get right; also often performed because some sort of trauma, may be other complications, like putting back skull as jigsaw puzzle

q: mentioned don't often know cause of death

a: varies by jurisdiction, just moved to VA where get death certificate, not always before embalming but sometimes, more communication between funeral home and medical examiner

q con't: is there a protocol where, if heard someone died falling down stairs at home, but you look at body and hm, that doesn't seem right

a: medical examiner members come into workplace and look at body regularly, whereas in TX never happened

q: so if going to kill someone do it in TX

a: yes, I can tell you exactly what county because they do not want to pay for an autopsy. so answer is, yes, could receive custody of body and say this looks weird, don't see that happen very often

q: process & economics; relative was a vegan & devoted environmentalist, chose human composting and bill was $20k

a: human composting fairly new, legal in Oregon or Washington State, don't know process. much simpler version is green burial, no embalming, biodegradable shroud or wicker casket, graves usually shallower. probably the most natural and easiest way to handle if find cemetery that will let you do that

q: does role involve lot of communication w/family loved ones, if so, what kind of questions concerns tend to come up

a: b/c work for large corporate facility, when started before licensed, was "removal technician" & therefore frequently family's first point of contact, so have done communication; less now, more frequently staying in building. very strange surreal sort of experience. jokes that after working retail for long time, rude family member has a good reason to be; though frankly very rare, and once talk to, will usually calm down and realize that you are not person to take out on. usually questions are immediate logistics, where taking tonight, what's going to happen tonight. what families need most at that moment is very simple answers, has found

q: how long does embalming process take

a: it depends, know people who do in 45 minutes (always a little skeptical of that), 1 hour to multiple; generally 90 minutes for "normal" dead body

q: going back to details of appearance that shows get wrong

a: varies greatly, not one ready answer for. frequently few hours later, rigor will be setting in, mostly get blood pooling, liver mortis, purplish blue sort of bruising effect (not actually burst capillaries); but really depends, seen people already turning green in abdomen few hours after death, or people three days dead looked better than I did

q: how many overdose deaths in Northern VA?

a: can't answer accurately, see some, in TX as well; are times when doesn't know, hear people speculating

q: what about when body laying around several days?

a: complain about it. only on one, very memorable, house call; also lot from medical examiner in TX, indigent community, would sit at medical examiner until identification; not fun, does not smell good at all; may not be able to be embalmed

q: why don't wooden coffins decompose quickly (re: green burial using baskets instead)

a: Jewish families, very simple literal pine box, no metal anything, will disintegrate pretty quickly, though depends on moisture in soil etc.; whereas wicker baskets not designed to keep dirt, air, bugs out

q: what is strangest or more most memorable cause of death

a: where I kill the mood at a party: fallen off back of motorcycle on busy highway, hit by at least two cars. took a very long time. generally a lot of stitching faces up with dental floss after motorcycle accidents. very passionate about motorcycle safety.

q: any exciting advancements in mortuary science? conventions?

a: yes, but started school in 2019, working in field in 2020 (timeliest thing ever done in life), all conventions stopped. ICCFA is a funeral con, get email from that and ICFA. big things happening: alkaline hydrolysis, a.k.a. liquid cremation, being slowly legalized; human composting (seems like a lot of work when going to decompose anyway, but everyone should die their best death)

q: what extent modify embalming process re cultural or religious reasons

a: generally all or nothing. if no embalming, will bathe body, make look peaceful before family comes in

q: any shows, movies got it right, or interesting stylistically that definitely wrong but on purpose

a: The Last of Us, patient zero, reacted "oh that didn't look bad". never watched big things like Walking Dead so don't know how they handled. actors who are aged with prosthetics, get things layered on but when aging naturally tends to shrink in. favorite thing, watching crime shows & seeing what kind of body bags using: those are good ones, those leak

q: how has work affected your relationship with mortality

a: honestly don't know that it has, many ways very easy career transition for me because don't come from family with lot of religious or funeral practices, don't know what happens when I die and don't have strong opinions, don't care about your opinions either. however pandemic definitely gave some moments of wow this is horrible, but more about why are we the living letting this happen to people; also opinions about elder care and conditions in which people die

q: mentioned gut flora, parts of body still alive even after death; specific methods of dealing with; new life grows on?

a: even embalmed bodies will mold eventually depending on environmental factors; one of people who trained, traveling mortician, during COVID would go to other cities, came back from LA which had warehouses not refrigerated trucks, had to deal with mold and decomposition; where now, do a lot burials at Arlington National Cemetery, very long wait list, then into special Arlington cooler after ceremony, now we need to clean some mold before burial. other than that, trying to neutralize little pathogens that make job more complicated, one that causes very quick decomposition and not neutralized by formaldehyde.

q: what is job split with funeral director? (me)

a: historically, back when "undertaker" used more frequently, was full service: pick up body, embalm, arrange services. now, people who don't want to deal with dead bodies can be funeral directors only talk to families, arrange services, do event planning basically. means she does do hair and makeup if open casket (sometimes will try to have professionals come in, for some reason don't ever retain them). very different if small family owned, people will do everything much more likely

q: does mortuary have makeup that you use, or do you pull makeup that you use

a: very specific brands of mortuary makeup, had article in Deadlands about this recently; changes texture of skin, dehydrates

And then we were out of time.

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Comments

[rachelmanija]

That was great! Thanks for the writeup. I had no idea she was a mortician.

[kate_nepveu]

welcome! I'm excited to backread her column.

[sporky_rat]

I am amused by that as I am a mortuary science student.

[kate_nepveu]

now you know what kind of things people are going to ask you! (if you didn't already)

[sporky_rat]

This is way way better than when we had high schoolers come in and ask if we "chopped the legs off" so they'd fit in the casket and we were floored. None of the children realized that the other half of the casket opened up.

(Granted, we were all very punchy at that point but we resisted mightily the urge to tell them that yes, we did chop the legs off and sell them on the black market for hookers and blow)

[kate_nepveu]

I'd expect that from elementary school kids rather than high schoolers (except that I guess you wouldn't be having elementary school kids there on a field trip?)

[j00j]

Thanks for sharing this, what a fascinating read.

[kate_nepveu]

glad you found it as fascinating as I did!

[genarti]

Oh wow, this is fascinating! Thanks so much for writing it up!

[kate_nepveu]

welcome!

Top notch service

[jesse_the_k]

Journalism

Thanks so much