WorldCon: Things I Did Wrong

[kate_nepveu]

(I was planning to write this as a section of my big roundup post pretty much from the start, to be titled "Ego Boosting and Deflating," but since I see an aspect of it is being discussed, I thought I should break it out separately so it would go up quicker.)

A number of people were kind enough to say to me that they liked things I said on panels or the way I moderated or things I write online. I am very grateful for and appreciative of those comments. However, since very few people (even at a con!) are going to come up to me and say that they thought I did a lousy job or said something stupid, I thought it important to publicly acknowledge the times I did something wrong at the con.

• I suggested a group of people sit somewhere physically incapable of accommodating at least one of the members of the group. I apologized to the group at least but possibly not to the specific person; I apologize for being ableist and sizeist.
• During a panel, I interrupted karnythia to explain something that she was going to get to in just a minute. (I apologized after.)
• Upon reflection, I'm pretty sure I mispronounced karnythia's name at least once while on a panel. I apologize.

  (I read by word recognition not phonetics and keep wanting to swap the "n" and "y" in her name, "cah-RIN-thee-ah" instead of "car-NEE-thee-ah." However, she said it out loud, that's no excuse, I should have written it down.)

• I told Kathryn Cramer something true but not complete and appeared two-faced as a result.

  When she approached me and said that she regretted that I had dropped off a panel with her called "X, Why? Minorities in a Large Field, or Majorities in Our Own?," I said that I had been scheduled for items at 9:00, 10:00 (that one), 11:00, and 12:30. I should also have added "and as you know, we have fundamental differences of viewpoint, so I didn't feel it appropriate to be on a panel with you." I apologize for the inaccuracy.

  (I was considerably surprised by her approaching me, especially since I had previously been told that she had stated that I had refused to be on a panel with her [*], and so socialization took over in the absence of preparation.)

  [*] Yes, her knowledge of this raises other issues; I'm asking you all to defer discussion of them for now.

• I was a thoughtless Anglophone to hotel staff several times.

I have more complicated thoughts on my moderation of the "Writing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in Geographic Terms" panel, but I think they need to wait.

Do feel free to add to this list. Anonymous commenting is on here as usual, but I will screen gratuitously nasty comments (and then repost under ROT13 so you all can judge for yourselves).

(As I've said before: please don't say "oh gosh those aren't that bad, you're too hard on yourself" or whatever. I'm not looking for consolation or cookies. Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd save anything nice you were planning to say for a more topical post. => )

Comments

[fledgist.livejournal.com]

Why is it inappropriate to be on a panel with someone with whom you disagree? Is there something wrong with the airing of differences of viewpoint?

It may be a generational thing, but I feel that it can be useful to make differences and the reasons for them open, as well as the bases for possible agreement on some issues.

[kate_nepveu]

Did you read the link?

[fledgist.livejournal.com]

I hadn't at that time. My apologies.

[publius1.livejournal.com]

While that all sounds admirably high-minded, Katheryn Cramer, due to some truly noxious behavior about a half a year ago, does not deserve defending (http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/901816.html). It's not just disagreement.

Also, no, wanting to air differences is not the sole jurisdiction of the venerable.

[neverjaunty.livejournal.com]

"It may be a generational thing"? Wow, way to passively-aggressively suggest that kate_nepveu made this decision based on the bull-headed impetuousness of youth. Cue patronizing chuckle.

[redbird]

There are different kinds of disagreement, I think: my short "will not be on a panel with again" list is based on behavior, not just opinions. For example, it's not that $person1 holds opinions I find problematic, but that she tried bullying me into defending/justifying myself when I asked her not to point a camera flash directly at me. (I don't know her opinions on most things I would expect to be panel topics.) Someone else got on the list for bad behavior during a panel, including but not limited to making it clear that he didn't think anyone my age could possibly belong on the panel in question. (Thinking that would have just been his problem, and saying so to the people running programming would have been iffy: saying so during the panel we were both on was over the top.

[pgdudda.livejournal.com]

I wish you hadn't gotten sick. You were excellent on the panels I saw you at. I was hoping to get a chance to get to know you and karnythia better, but the one chance I had, I was not wanting to speak up and "horn in" on her/your social circle and space. I somewhat regret not taking the risk of asking, but am very glad both of you attended, and hope to have other chances to meet in the future.

(I also owe you an apology for mispronouncing your name after hearing it. I even transcribed in IPA to help me remember, and still failed. Sorry.)

[kate_nepveu]

Accepted, though since my name is very difficult on first go for someone who's only seen it, I was not offended.

It was nice to meet you! I brought copies of your flyer to . . . some panel . . . and though I forgot to mention it at the time, gave it out to people talking after, and also to the POC meetup.

[jimbow8.livejournal.com]

Wow. This Con seems like it was quite an ordeal. Sorry you went through it.

I commend you for acknowledging these things you did wrong. They obviously meant enough to you to bother you quite a bit, which says good things about your character.

I just wanted to say that, while I can't say that I understand what happened at the con or topic or racism in general, I feel that I've learned a bit from reading several of your posts and links. Thank you for that.

[kate_nepveu]

Well, it had its ups and downs, but on the whole I wouldn't characterize it as an ordeal.

And thanks, I appreciate hearing that. It is very good to know that it makes a difference.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure being a "thoughtless Anglophone" to hotel staff really counts in Montreal. (I was going to say that Canada is officially bilingual, but I googled it and it turns out only to the be the case in New Brunswick, and Quebec is officially unilingually Francophone).

That said, it's still a reasonable expectation that client-facing hotel staff in any decent-sized hotel in Montreal will speak English.

[janni.livejournal.com]

Well, by that thinking it's also a reasonable expectation that many customer service oriented folks here in the Southwest speak Spanish, and that's very much not the case. I'm not sure we have a right to expect English from others when our country is so unwilling to accommodate those who don't speak same, even in border communities.

[lbmango.livejournal.com]

I think we need a word somewhere between desire, expect, and demand...

I think it's probably ok to "sort-of figure that they'll probably" speak English. And to be "slightly surprised" if they don't. And being "Disappointed" is of course ok (I can be disappointed whenever things don't turn out my way...). However, being "annoyed" or "put-out" is not ok.

"Expect" has a bit of the "demand" connotation to it I think, which is why it's causing problems here. IMHO.

[troubleinchina.livejournal.com]

Canada is officially bilingual, but this tends to play out more in theory than in practice, as your Googling discovered. (Governments and big companies do the bilingual thing fairly consistently.)

New Brunswick is the only place I've called where the phone is typically answered "Bonjour Hello?".

[redbird]

It isn't actually a reasonable expectation, because it would be illegal for the hotel to make "speaks English" a job requirement there. Yes, most if not all Montreal hotels have at least some Anglophone front desk staff, because it is good business and because so many Montrealers are at least somewhat bilingual. But "many do" is different from "we can insist that all do," and it would be illegal employment discrimination.

[annewashere.livejournal.com]

What do you think is the right thing to do when you're not sure if the person you're talking to speaks English? I hadn't thought about it (stupid me) before we visited Montreal and sort of defaulted to saying "Hello" in response to "Bonjour", upon which every person we dealt with immediately switched to English. (some of them even said 'sorry', which: !!!)

I usually say 'lo siento hablo muy poco Espanol' in Mexico, but that's different since I do have a tiny bit of Spanish.

[kate_nepveu]

In Montreal it's "bonjour hi." http://community.livejournal.com/antici_food/371.html

IME if you say "bonjour" back, though, they will *immediately* know you are Anglophone. =>

[avram]

Do feel free to add to this list.

Should we add things we think you did wrong, or volunteer things we did wrong?

Here's one of the latter: When Kathryn Cramer apologized to me last Thursday for some things she had said to me in email, I accepted without suggesting to her that she should instead publicly acknowledge that her behavior in the matter of OutingFail was reprehensible, and apologize to CoffeeAndInk and the other offended parties. That option didn't even occur to me until last night. What you said about socialization taking over.

[kate_nepveu]

I meant about me, actually, but I don't mind.

[radiotelescope.livejournal.com]

Grrgromp.

I had seen "bonjourhi" described in a much clumsier way -- essentially as "This is a cute Montreal thing! Enjoy it!" -- and so I completely skipped over subsequent discussion and ignored it.

Blah. Well, I've acted like a jerk before this in my life.

[kate_nepveu]

I hear you.

[tonko.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's thoughtless to speak to hotel staff in English first--I live here and I always start off in English. Though I do have the luxury of switching to French if I need to. Montreal very often has both for many people, so I use the one I like best first.

I can't think of anything you did badly (not that I was in your vicinity most of the time!) I remember being surprised at first at how businesslike you were with keeping panel discussions going, I thought it made things feel rushed at times--but that was, as I said, at first. After I attended a few rather more sedate and/or directionless panels I changed my mind. Competant moderaters are valuable.

This is the only Worldcon I've ever been to, by the way, my previous experience with panels is basically nil.

[kate_nepveu]

Thanks for the feedback. Covering new topics versus satisfactorily exploring topics already raised is definitely an ongoing consideration; some of that is taste, but if I moderate panels again it will always be something I should keep in mind.

[2muchexposition.livejournal.com]

Not to make this about me, but one of the things I did wrong was to not come up and say hi to you after the NotSlans panel. I certainly intended to, but I was low on social (and caloric) fuel, so I spaced, and left the panel room instead of waiting. Since then, I have been reminding myself that chances to talk to you in person are rare treats, and that next time I need to be better about making sure they happen.

[kate_nepveu]

Since we were needing to drive five hours to my mom's pretty much right then, there wouldn't have been that much time anyway, so no worries.

It's looking likely that I'll be in NYC in October though for an oral argument, so I definitely would like to come by. Keep you posted.