Harry Potter & the Chamber of Secrets (spoilers)

[kate_nepveu]

Proposition: the reason that Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets is less interesting than the first book is that the story is mostly about someone other than Harry.

Discuss.

(Alternatively, what the heck was Bloomsbury UK thinking with the kids-version cover art for the seventh book? (See also: US version.))

ETA: I've booklogged this book & its predecessor.

Comments

[doire]

My first thought was that they were thinking Terry Pratchet covers. It looks like a Josh Kirby pastiche to me.

So glad I realised (shortly after I finished tOtP) that I don't have to read them. The discussion is much more engrossing.

[kate_nepveu]

Me too, and I can't think of a case where "Josh Kirby pastiche" is a good thing!

[kgbooklog.livejournal.com]

It looks like a Josh Kirby pastiche to me.

My first impression too. "Three kids chasing a runaway treasure heap" is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect on an early Pratchett book.

[montoya.livejournal.com]

But, um, the first book is by far the worst of the lot.

[culfinriel.livejournal.com]

I kind of liked the part where he sic'd a python on his cousin. Unfortunately, the python had its own agenda.

[kate_nepveu]

I've been listening to them as audiobooks, and the second was hard work to keep listening to, while the first was not.

So I disagree.

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

I saw the cover art linked from metaquotes before, and... well, I can't snark better than those commenting there (Common emergent themes: Ali Baba, Stargate, Dobby... surprising Harry rather unexpectedly and unpleasantly), so I'll leave it with "What were they thinking" as well. I'd thought the US cover was weird, but comparatively it looks positively classy, and even makes you wonder about Harry's weird pose in there. (Right after an expelliarmus?)

As to the Chamber of Secrets: It's true that Harry is mostly an observer there, but I don't know that he's less of an observer in, say, Azkaban or Stone. In all three books he watches things happen, finds clues, follows clues, and in the final scene acts. Perhaps it is less interesting because it is more of a mystery than the other two---in Stone they discover the focal point is the philosopher's stone early on, in Azkaban Sirius Black is named practically on page one, but for me the Heir of Slytherin remained shadowy and somewhat confusing even after the fight with the basilisk. It was... a piece of Voldemort's soul. Who was the heir. Who was acting through Ginny. All right, then. (Of course it all made perfect sense in book six.)

Chamber is still the weakest book for my money too, but I am not sure if that was the whole reason for that feeling.

[kate_nepveu]

I think the real story in _CoS_ is *Ginny's*, which is a lot more interesting than Harry playing detective--though the mystery part is reasonably well-constructed.

In _PS_, at least he was still learning about the magical world and all.

But we'll see what I think after I listend to _PoA_.

[stormfeather.livejournal.com]

"Dobby... surprising Harry rather unexpectedly and unpleasantly"

Oh good. I'm so glad my mind's not the only one that went there. Because... yeah.

What the hell WERE they thinking?

[eruthros]

My feeling was that CoS is less interesting because it should be a descent into hell narrative, but JKR keeps defusing the tension.

That is, if PS is the story of A Boy Discovers Who He Is and What He Can Do With His Friends (and people to believe him, and teachers, and also a wand), then CoS is structurally the opposite: we strip away Harry's pleasant celebrity, stun his friend, give him an evil talent, even make him think he's going crazy. And then, at the end, he's left without Dumbledore or Hagrid, Ron ends up on the other side of a rockfall, and he's poisoned and afraid. Classic! What does Harry do when there is no-one watching? Who is he when there is nothing but himself?

And if that were the story, then I would have found it fascinating. But that's just the outline; the story keeps jumping over to a concern with Ginny, or defusing the tension around Harry's growing isolation and doubt with homework scenes and quidditch. So I want the two books to stand as parallels, right? Lift the boy out of misery and isolation, and what can he do with friends, and then drop him back down, and see who he is when he has nothing left. But the second book doesn't work that way, even if the outline looks right.

[kate_nepveu]

Hmmm! That's interesting.

The school year format really imposes odd pacing requirements, I think, and that may have sometning to do with that--it's hard to do an entire school year of just the growing tension.

I wonder if the loyalty theme might run counter to the structure you identify--Harry wins not because he conquers his own self-doubts about his nature, but because he defends Dumbledore.

[eruthros]

Yes! Exactly. It's almost that story. And I wouldn't mind if it had some other structure entirely, but it's so nearly that story that I can't help seeing it as a failed attempt at same rather than as a story about loyalty or a story about Ginny or whatever.

Also, it's the only excuse for the inclusion of poor little Harry, whose friends hate him, blahblah, Ron and Harry blah. I think I kinda wish it had succeeded as a descent narrative, because then we'd be over it: we'd know who Harry was, and what he could do, and we could stop with the "Ron thought Harry was lying to him!" "Harry and the rest of Gryffindor house were on the outs!" and whatever. Especially because I think it's annoying in most stories, but actually does induce tension in a descent narrative.

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

Wasn't this book two? After your version, what would be left for the next five books? And who under the age of ____ would buy them?

[kate_nepveu]

There are still plenty of external threats and quests, and there's still Harry growing up as well as understanding himself. I don't see it as being a problem.

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

And PS: I linked to this entry from my own entry today. I hope you don't mind.

[kate_nepveu]

Not at all, except that you got the username wrong. =>

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

*blush* Fixed. And it wasn't the first time I made the same mistake, I just did not catch myself in time now. I don't know why I have it fixed in my mind to think of you as knepveu---was that an e-mail account name you had as you posted to RASFWR-J?

[kate_nepveu]

Some of the time, yup. Don't worry about it.

[skwidly.livejournal.com]

If it's any comfort, I've done the same thing many a time.

[corruptedjasper.livejournal.com]

My mind stubbornly says knepveu, too. So.. I dunno. I think it's a combination of being the *type* of nick/username that's common (initial-lastname), along with kate having used it at a fairly long stretch back when.

Also, knepveu *sounds* good.

[kate_nepveu]

*boggle*

How are you pronouncing it?

[corruptedjasper.livejournal.com]

Uhm. Knephew, more or less.

Perhaps I should say "looks good". It sounded a lot better in my head until you forced me to think about how it actually would sound. And yes, that's a weird thing to think/say. Sorry about that.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

I like the second book a great deal more than the first. There's a sense of menace in Chamber that's completely absent in Stone, with its seven impossible tasks that present three eleven year olds with only a minor challenge.

But I would agree that the difference in quality also has something to do with the books' respective focus. Harry is, by far, the series' least interesting character, and the books work best when he's acting as an observer, our window to the history of the wizarding world and his own extended family.

[kate_nepveu]

I was surprised that in listening to the first book, I got a better sense of Harry's personality than I'd remembered from reading them. But generally, yes, he's a youth-shaped hole in the story for readers to step through--which is not necessarily a bad thing, as you say.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

After looking at the UK version I suspect that's positioning for Dan Radcliffe being and looking 21 when he's playing 16 for the last movie. Doesn't excuse it, though, it's dreadful.

[kate_nepveu]

Heh. I did notice that Harry's face was particularly craggy, but still--the US cover manages an older Harry with much more subtlety.

[charlie-ego.livejournal.com]

Hmm... this made me realize that part of the reason I don't like the second book as much is not because it doesn't focus on Harry, but because it is focused on Ginny, who certainly at the time is not a strong enough character to handle it. (The third book, which is my favorite, is also not focused on Harry, but it's focused on Sirius and Lupin, who are *much* more interesting characters.)

[kate_nepveu]

But could she have been, is I guess what I was thinking? The real plot happened largely out of sight of Harry, and just gets recounted by Tom; if it had been foregrounded, could it have been compelling? I don't see any reason why not.

I am looking forward to seeing how the third book holds up on audio. At this point I remember the movie a lot better.

[charlie-ego.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. I guess my answer to that would be that I don't think it *would* have been compelling, because Ginny at this point just doesn't have the... personality to bring it off. But yeah, I see what you mean in that if it *had* been focused on Harry (as is, say, the 4th book) it would have been more interesting to me.

[oyceter]

Huh! CoS is definitely my least favorite of the series so far, but I never thought about why. I was going to say that I didn't think it was the focus on a non-Harry character, just because my favorite parts of the series have been the revelation of backstory, be it Sirius' or Voldemort's or Snape's. But then I read the comments and agree about the focus on Ginny.

It's also been a while since I've reread it, so my memory's a bit fuzzy. I do also remember being annoyed at the "poor wrongly accused Harry" plot. Harry being conflicted and at odds with his friends or with other people tends to bore me throughout the series, so that may be a part of my own personal reaction to CoS.

[kate_nepveu]

I don't enjoy the "poor Harry" parts either; they tend to make me feel claustrophobic and seem to take up much more space than they actually do.

Harry Potter #7 Children's Cover

[magicdragon2.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll confess. I actually PREFER the Harry Potter #7 Children's Cover to the adult cover. More action. More loot. Also, I am dying to find out how Harry Potter gets to Scrooge McDuck's treasury. Does Gyro Gearloose teach Defense Against the Dark Arts?

Re: Harry Potter #7 Children's Cover

[kate_nepveu]

how Harry Potter gets to Scrooge McDuck's treasury

Heh.

Cover art

[kgbooklog.livejournal.com]

Kate: the link you give points to the US artist's gallery.

Re: Cover art

[kate_nepveu]

When I posted that, it pointed to a gallery with the US, UK kids, and UK adults covers. How annoying.

Here, try this for links to all of them:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/index.php?articleID=9653

And this for the UK kids:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/gallery/picture/129922

I'll update the post:

Prolly too late for discussion, but I'll post anyways

[thormation.livejournal.com]

(An incessant reminder why USENET is superior to LJ, but I digress...)

Since my "There's no Harry there" theory has already been posted, I am pbliged to pull up my other HP chestnut--namely: The whole Harry Potter series would have been improved greatly if the Sorting Hat had put him into Slytherin despite his pleas to the contrary.

Because Harry is still Harry (that is, generic good guy) there is no reason that we couldn't still have had him bond with Ron and Hermione on the train and still had Friends for Life. But having Harry in Slytherin would have given us a closer look at this supposedly "evil" house, and maybe some of the non-Malfoy people within. Just because Slytherin people are, mostly, clever and opportunistic doesn't mean they would or should all be natural allies of Voldemort. Also, it would have given people's reactions to Harry more nuance--or at least more logic. The way that the Griffindors alternately embrace and shun Harry would make more sense if he wasn't one of them.

Because really, having 1/4 of your school populated by known traitors and malevolent bastards really doesn't make any sense at all.

Re: Prolly too late for discussion, but I'll post anyways

[kate_nepveu]

I did say that about Slytherin in the booklog entry, though not that Harry should've been put in.

Harry in Slytherin is of course a staple of fanfic, but a particularly good one that happens to include this is an AU in which Harry is psychologically well-adjusted by virtue of being raised by Black & Lupin from age 8 (the pivot moment is Black not going to Azkaban). It's an uncanny pastiche, a lot of fun, and a deliberate reconstruction of the best of the books on better plots and more balanced characters--maybe it's a bit too perfect, I admit, but still fun.

The prequel is _Stealing Harry_; the subsequent years at Hogwarts are _Laocoon's Children_, years 1 - 3 (currently in progress; all 7 are projected). You can browse them here : http://sam-storyteller.livejournal.com/tag/

(Nb. readers who don't want to read about two guys in a sexual & romantic relationship should stay away.)

[corruptedjasper.livejournal.com]

I know what I'm thinking: "Goddamn, that's one big-ass spine." And also, "I wonder if that's the real one or a decoy."

[chomiji]

Actually, on the Kirby-esque cover, Harry looks amazingly like the young adult Tim Hunter from Books of Magic. And to me, that's not necessarily a Good Thing.

- Cho

[kate_nepveu]

Huh. I've only read the first of those, so I can't say.

[chomiji]

Well, you see him as a young adult during one of the "flashforwards" when he's being shown his possible future. I think whichever one of the Trenchcoat Brigade is playing tour guide at that point refers to him as "the leader of the opposition," and it's clear that this future Tim Hunter is not a nice person ... probably not worth checking out if you don't remember the comic fondly. But it's interesting, especially given the flack over the years about how much the Harry Potter books resemble various previously published works - including Books of Magic.

- Cho